We’re back for part 2 of my interview with Frances Hunter (aka Liz and Mary Clare), author of To the Ends of the Earth: The Last Journey of Lewis and Clark.Liz and Mary, what themes were foremost in your minds when you began to write Ends? Did any surprising themes emerge as you were writing, and if so, why do you think these themes are meaningful to you?
Liz: A theme that emerged almost immediately as we researched and began to write was celebrity. Meriwether Lewis was one the most famous and successful man in America, or so it seemed. But what happened to him was a very typical celebrity story in many ways. He achieved his dream, and he didn’t know where to go from there. So there is the sadness and tragedy of what happens to heroes sometimes.

Mary: I think one of the strongest parts of the book is the depiction of the relationship between Clark and his slave York. Here are two men, about forty years old, who have been companions since boyhood. By all rights there ought to be a deep friendship there, but it’s impossible, because one’s the master and the other’s the slave. York accompanied Clark across the continent. He suffered the same hardships and saw the same wonders as everybody else, but he is not free to speak his mind or choose his own destiny. When he tried, Clark literally beat him back into his place. Some of our readers have been uncomfortable with this part of the book, but in my opinion, it is one of the most compelling themes. Clark and York have a true love-hate relationship.
Liz: The most meaningful theme to me is embodied in the title of the novel, To the Ends of the Earth. The people in this novel do a lot of hurting. But they keep reaching for something nobler—for love and friendship and honor. The fact is that Lewis and Clark needed each other, and would have done anything for each other. They shared a command in a way that is almost unheard of, in the military or anywhere else. By the end of their journey across the continent, they were more than partners. They were alter egos. They realized that they were stronger and smarter together than either was alone. This is a deeply personal theme to Mary and me. We are bonded together in much the same way as Lewis and Clark were. There was a strong identification there.
The strongest theme of the book became the ennobling power of love, courage, and honor, versus the corrosive power of hate, vengeance, and despair. This is something that we all ultimately wrestle with in our lives. We all have to deal with the dark side of life and what’s dark in ourselves. What Clark learns in his search for meaning is that we can survive the blows that life hands out and even our own self-inflicted wounds.
Those are profound insights that add considerable depth to Ends. What especially helpful historical resources did you come across in your research—Web sites, books, videos, etc.?
Mary: The first book everybody turns to is Stephen Ambrose’s Undaunted Courage. It’s a great overview of the expedition and a good character study of Meriwether Lewis in particular. We also read the DeVoto and Moulton editions of the Lewis and Clark journals. The Great Journey West movie is fun and gives you a good idea of the challenges Lewis and Clark faced and the beautiful country they traveled through.
For old St. Louis, we found a wonderful book called St. Louis: An Informal History of the City and Its People by Charles Van Ravenswaay. It was indispensable, along with the great National Park Service Web site A 19th Century Slang Dictionary on the Camp Chase Gazette Web site and the book Tailor Made, Trail Worn, by Robert J. Moore Jr. and Michael Haynes. This is an exhaustively researched and wonderfully illustrated study of the clothing worn by the men of the Corps of Discovery. And no historical novelist should be without The Book of Insults Ancient and Modern by Nancy McPhee!
I definitely need to add that last one to my personal library! You can’t beat an authentic, well-turned insult in just the right place. So ... what new projects are you working on now?
Mary: We have a first draft of a “prequel” about Lewis and Clark that deals with how they met and became friends when they were young officers in Anthony Wayne’s army in 1796. We are also developing an idea for a mystery about Robert E. Lee, who came to St. Louis in 1838 as a young officer in the Army Corps of Engineers. His task was literally to move the Mississippi River. And he did.
Wow—those sound like intriguing story lines! As you’re beginning a new project, which comes first—characters, plot, era, theme?
Mary: First, you have to know the basic story you want to tell, and why you want to tell it. You have to feel a compelling emotional pull towards the story and the characters. What is it about these people that will make readers want to spend time with them? What human truth are you trying to get across? Once you know these things, you can begin your research and start fleshing out the characters, the plot, and the setting.
Our original idea for Ends was pretty simple. The story became much more rich and complex as we fleshed it out, but the basic theme was still there: How far would you go for friendship?
Liz: For me it all starts with an unanswered question. Who killed Meriwether Lewis? There’s an unanswered question. How did Lewis and Clark get to be such extraordinary friends? There’s another, and thereby hangs a tale. Also, I have to love the characters. After all, I’ll be spending the next few years with them!
Excellent points. Are you going to concentrate on writing books together, or does either of you have any solo projects in mind?
Liz: Definitely together. I really enjoy writing something that I know Mary will get a kick out of. Writing is a pretty lonely business, and the world remains largely indifferent to your genius! With Mary to write with, there’s someone else right by my side, even during the long and difficult times when success seems most elusive. Just like Lewis and Clark.
Mary: For us, it is much more fun writing together than apart. It’s more satisfying and easier to stay motivated, because you make faster progress and get immediate feedback. We’ve really enjoyed the experience of sharing this project. I can’t wait to collaborate on another project soon.
Who would you say has influenced each of you the most as a writer and why?
Mary: My biggest influence as a writer is John Jakes. No one would argue that his books are great literature, but he knows how to tell a ripping good story. If you look at the structure of The Bastard or North and South, you see how Jakes drops you back in time, with a sense of immediacy and authenticity surrounding the historical conflicts that are taking place. His characters are both flawed and sympathetic. And his cliff-hangers are amazing—you just can’t put the book down! I would be thrilled to be compared to John Jakes one day.
Liz: When we were stuck, we’d ask ourselves, “What Would John Jakes Do?” There’s a great book by Dwight Swain called Techniques of the Selling Writer that embodies a lot of what you can learn from a writer like Jakes or Ken Follett as far as how to bring life to your writing and tell an exciting and emotionally compelling story.
I can tell the two of you really enjoy what you do. What do you like best about writing and/or being an author?
Liz: I like the times when the research and the characters and my own life experience come together and the writing just flows. Some days your fingers can barely disgorge a word onto the keyboard, but there’s nothing better than the times when you visualize a scene in your mind’s eye, and it’s as if you’re a reporter, simply writing down what you see.
Mary: Being able to create a great story that’s exciting and fun to read, and that maybe touches the reader in a deeper way. All you really want is for your book to be read and enjoyed.
I know every writer will agree with those goals. Okay, what do you struggle with the most as a writer, and what have you learned from it?
Liz: I struggle with research paralysis. Sometimes I feel that I can’t go on until I have every detail in place. I’ve wasted whole writing sessions surfing the net trying to find out what kind of shoe laces they had or what they ate in roadside taverns. Obviously, it would be much better simply to flag those questions and get on with writing a good scene. That’s something that I have to get better at.
The good news is that when you overcome research paralysis, you end up with placeholders that end up being some of the funniest things about the whole project. For example, I once had Clark think of his hometown—Louisville, Kentucky—and yearn for a Hot Brown sandwich. Too bad he missed it by another 120 years.
Mary: The hardest part is realizing that you can’t wait for external validation to believe in yourself and your work. Like most new writers, we got endless rejections from literary agents, and then when we finally found an agent, a whole new round of rejections from editors. It’s hard to know what to do when one publishing house says your work is not commercial enough, another says it’s too commercial, etc. You get beaten down by your own lack of control over the process.
In the end, we decided to form Blind Rabbit Press and publish the book independently. It’s been a wonderful experience. The book is exactly the way we wanted it in every way. We’ve gotten a great response from readers and reviewers. I’m glad that we kept believing in the quality of our book and didn’t give up on ourselves. It’s vindicating to take a risk and feel like you made the right decision.
A big amen to that. Ladies, thank you so much for sharing your experiences and insights with us. It's been a gas getting acquainted with you and learning about To the Ends of the Earth. I wish you the greatest success with Ends and with all your upcoming projects!
Be sure to comment on this post today to be entered in the drawing for a free copy of To the Ends of the Earth. Up for tomorrow is Michelle Sutton’s review of The Begotten by Lisa T. Bergren, and I’ll announce this week’s winner tomorrow as well.
Frances Hunter 









1. You have published over 70 novels. How long have you been writing historical Christian fiction and what got you started on this path?












